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 Post subject: MISC THREAD - What topics should we talk about today?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:06 pm 
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Misc thread. Take it where you want.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:33 pm 
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We could bust Pennenuts' chops for being wasted and posting a bunch of nonsensical rambles last night.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

:wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:39 pm 
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Good start. Hey Pennenuts, drink some coffee and get yer shit together before ya freakin post.


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 Post subject: another topic
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:13 pm 
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How about masturbation in public? That's roughly the same thing.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:23 pm 
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You better Belize!


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 Post subject: Kardashev vs Malthus: who would win the battle royale?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:34 pm 
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Ponder that question in light of this global energy use chart:

Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:42 pm 
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^ Damn.

Where did you get that chart from?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:04 pm 
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So, what the hell is wrong with Pennenuts? He seems to have lost it.

That chart tells me how wrong we are doing things.

Solar power. The earth will not exist without the sun, so why not harness the energy while we are here? It takes millions of years to make oil and coal. At this rate we will use it all up in a few hundreds of years. Hello???

Bob


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 Post subject: How to find sources for images
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:23 pm 
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Where is (chart, image, graphic) from?

Using Firefox, right click -> View Image.

Not using Firefox on a PC? Download it here.

Not using a PC? Macs are cool, too. :wink:

-------------------------------
Now pertaining to solar:

Using all solar photovoltaics to generate all our electricity, it has been suggested that the entire earth's surface would have to be covered with arrays to capture 16 TW of energy. But most of our energy is wasted:

Image

(it's probably worse than this chart illustrates due to rounding errors and missing data).

However, when we look at non-direct electrical production and thermal generation (ie, direct heat sun->heat storage versus sun -> elec (and some kind of battery) -> heat (and direct thermal storage like earth, air and water), we see increases in efficiencies due to less "boundary conversion" (between different layers based on our current understanding of physics). IE, it makes little sense to heat a house with electricity produced by photovoltaics when it's cheaper to just have large windows and better insulation. These are engineering and cost tradeoffs.

Fortunately, solar photovoltaics have increased their efficiencies and decreased costs on exponential scales. Battery technology has also advanced exponentially, so in our lifetimes we are fortunate to witness the very first all-solar-electric cars in production right now. Massive demand and short supplies will cause the oil "solution" for energy production to become less and less viable.

Part of the problem is that we rely so heavily upon electricity (as we become cybernetic organisms, part human and part machine) that we inherently need (or think we need, which is much worse) vast amounts of this to survive as our common "civilization" requires.


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 Post subject: Re: How to find sources for images
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:58 am 
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phrazz wrote:
Where is (chart, image, graphic) from?

Using Firefox, right click -> View Image.

Not using Firefox on a PC? Download it here.

Not using a PC? Macs are cool, too. :wink:

-------------------------------
Now pertaining to solar:

Using all solar photovoltaics to generate all our electricity, it has been suggested that the entire earth's surface would have to be covered with arrays to capture 16 TW of energy. But most of our energy is wasted:

Image

(it's probably worse than this chart illustrates due to rounding errors and missing data).

However, when we look at non-direct electrical production and thermal generation (ie, direct heat sun->heat storage versus sun -> elec (and some kind of battery) -> heat (and direct thermal storage like earth, air and water), we see increases in efficiencies due to less "boundary conversion" (between different layers based on our current understanding of physics). IE, it makes little sense to heat a house with electricity produced by photovoltaics when it's cheaper to just have large windows and better insulation. These are engineering and cost tradeoffs.

Fortunately, solar photovoltaics have increased their efficiencies and decreased costs on exponential scales. Battery technology has also advanced exponentially, so in our lifetimes we are fortunate to witness the very first all-solar-electric cars in production right now. Massive demand and short supplies will cause the oil "solution" for energy production to become less and less viable.

Part of the problem is that we rely so heavily upon electricity (as we become cybernetic organisms, part human and part machine) that we inherently need (or think we need, which is much worse) vast amounts of this to survive as our common "civilization" requires.


Phrazzle, ma man, you never fail to disapoint! 8)

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“Life is like a toilet paper roll, the closer you get to the end, the quicker it goes!”

Make the most of every moment.
Life is measured not by the number of breathes you take, the number of things that take your breath away!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:06 pm 
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JustBob wrote:
So, what the hell is wrong with Pennenuts? He seems to have lost it.

That chart tells me how wrong we are doing things.

Solar power. The earth will not exist without the sun, so why not harness the energy while we are here? It takes millions of years to make oil and coal. At this rate we will use it all up in a few hundreds of years. Hello???

Bob


What are you doing about it?


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 Post subject: the beginning of the end of Hummer?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:07 pm 
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Speaking of energy costs and looking at the huge chunk of wasted energy in getting to work, here is an article which indicates a positive trend:

GM to close four plants, may unload Hummer line

Quote:
In addition, Wagoner said GM was reviewing the Hummer brand and could sell the military-derived SUV line, which has become synonymous with gas-guzzling excess.

"U.S. economic and market conditions have become significantly more difficult," Wagoner said, adding higher gasoline prices have caused consumers to swap out of trucks and SUVs faster than the automaker had expected.


This tells us that the automakers really aren't on the same page when it comes to environmental efficiencies, particularly in the US (Japanese automakers for a long time have been making much more fuel efficient cars...stating the obvious...so they are far ahead of the US right now). It is both disturbing and amusing at the same time. Of course I don't feel too bad for anyone who's bought a gas guzzler recently, but there are many who are making a decision to buy and this will help them realize they need a much more efficient vehicle.

There is also talk again about a 4-day work week. This is 20% gas savings right off the top. Now work 2 days at home and 2 days in the office and you save 60%!!!! How hard is that to manage? Not hard for me...or my manager...but as you go up the food chain, the big heads think they have a problem with that and are resistant to change. Time will take care of them, too (as the younger generation gains decision-making power).

--- on the subject of posting about posting ---

I would like to suggest that people just start a topic rather than saying "hey, let's start a topic" because it's like asking to play a game of cards but not having a deck. We can "take it where we want" at any time. I'd like to think there are others who enjoy more than just casual conversation ... but people have different experiences and views of what a "discussion forum" or "board" is supposed to be. I can observe what is the consensus, but I have never stuck to any norm.

I'm sometimes reluctant to engender discussions of more complexity (beyond just the boat and bands), because people seem to stick to one-liners and jokes about each other instead of more diverse topics. More like "casual distractions" and "remedial humor" versus anything of significant density. Heavy, deep and real...not light enough?

Yeah, this is the Jamcruise forum, so if it's not about Jamcruise, there are plenty of other forums for deep discussions. I'm hoping over time we can learn from each other...challenging us to think..maybe change our habits? I tend to believe if we can exemplify what we want society to be like, we can hope to make positive change outside of our "insulated" environment.

Anyhow, who has changed their travel style to use less gas? Let's take it simple...who uses mass transit or bikes to work? Maybe I'll put up another poll...those are always fun (if they're crafted well).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:24 pm 
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We don't REALLY care about reducing our oil consumption or polution or global warming or any of that. If we did, none of us would get on JC. We like the idea, but not enough to give up something we enjoy.


Last edited by atomicdawg on Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:25 pm 
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Location: Hillsborough, NJ (the known Universe)
atomicdawg wrote:
We don't REALLY care about reducing our oil consumption or polution or global or any of that. If we did, none of us would get on JC. We like the idea, but not enough to give up something we enjoy.


SSShhhhhh!!!!! Don't tell the hippies! :oops:

_________________
“Life is like a toilet paper roll, the closer you get to the end, the quicker it goes!”

Make the most of every moment.
Life is measured not by the number of breathes you take, the number of things that take your breath away!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:31 pm 
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Location: Seattle... or Zimbabwe
What if my week on Jam Cruise is what recharges my batteries enough to let me deny myself other things that would hurt the environment more?

I hope to get a plug in vehicle as soon as it is practical. Then my in city driving will be all hydro electric.

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I got to see it again.


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